Thursday, July 19, 2007

Sunday July 22: Addendum to: Time for a New Post


I've been "schmoozed"... [thank you Sylvia!]


Sunday, July 22, and the team i was rooting for, The Argentinians, won the U-20 FEFA Gold, hurrah!! ....

...and then more good news! hieresschild has kindly bestowed an award on my Blog! What a lovely surprise. Check out her blog [i don't know how to add a link within the text here, so just go to comments and click on her comment there, ok?] where she has a good definition of "to schmooze".

So now i have to nominate 5 people to pass this award on to. My first thought was Capt. Picard's Journal, but i think he already has recieved that award. This is not going to be easy, to limit it to 5, as there are so many good Blogs around.

The criteria for my choices is based on content that i find interesting, ones that have a variety of topics, as well as lots of photos, and ones that have up to 10 (or more) commentors. So here they are:

**Viamaria
**Lesley
**Nancy
**They Call him James
**Smalltown RN

and i had to add
**alan (for those who remember his fabulous Saturday's Recipes - you have to agree that those were the BEST!)

So, check out their sites by clicking on the links listed over there at the right, above the photograph of Maddie.

There are actually a few more that i would like to add, but perhaps i could invent my own Award. So until then, there you have it





I'm feeling pressured to put up a new Post. Isn't that odd?

The trouble is is that i'm "in a mood"-- and i have too much to do and i don't know where to begin. I'm kind of "down" today, and i'm not sure why. Last night i went to the Landmark Forum with my daughter.

I told her that i had absolutely no intention of sighing up. I had given her something to read that i had found on the internet. It was a critique of the Landmark Education Corporation and my daughter told me the person who wrote it did not know what he was talking about. We argued on most of the skytrain trip into downtown Vancouver, and i said, "I think i should just get off the train and go home, i don't feel like argueing about this". She said: "i'm not argueing" (psssthtst, could have fooled ME!). I told her that i might consider joining in about a year's time, once i saw that it had made a material difference on her life. She got really mad when i said that. I can't even remember what she said, but she had an answer for ever doubt i had, and no matter how illogical her answers sounded i was unable to have an intelligent discussion with her.

Anyway, by the time we got off the train and found a "starbucks" (i must be addicted to THAT brand!) i felt a bit better. She declined my offer to buy her a beverage, so i am not sure if she was just being considerate of my financial impoverishment, or if she was cross with me...oh well, whatEVER...

[I had no idea i was going to post about this....but now i'm on a roll, i guess this will be my new post]

There were not a lot of new people at the Landmark Office, and it seemed that most of them had done the courses. I was surprised at the lack of "special" name tags which i noticed at the last presentation i had attended. There were also about 16 people sitting at tables where registration would take place.

My daughter wanted to go to this presentation because she had heard wonderful things about the speaker.

I braced myself, expecting to be bombarded by shouting, "invitations" to sign up, repetition of "I get it", and the crowd responding to the speakers' promps. I was disappointed and pleased at the same time.

The meeting was called to order at about 7:15 (we had rushed to get there by the start date of 7:00) and although my back was terribly sore, and i was stiff all over from the very uncomfortable chair, i found the speaker entertaining and pleasant to listen to. The funny thing is if he had been the first speaker i heard at the Landmark Forums i might have been persuaded to join.

The speaker talked for about 10 minutes, briefly outling the program, and then said, "Well, there's not much more to tell you, so you can either sign up now and then go and see a movie, or go out for a beer, or we can waste more time talking about it" (something to that effect).

I was alarmed however, when he said that Landmark "Education" is working on getting the program into the schools. (oh well, buyer beware i guess).

Another half hour dragged by, and no one made any move to sign up, so he repeated the above statement. He said you have a choice, using the analogy of renting a vidio movie, if you don't like the movie you can press the OFF button and do something else instead. I turned to my daughter and said: "I'm bored, and i am not going to sign up, so i think i will go home, are you going to come with me?" She gave me a surprised look and said: "Do you want to ride the skytrain by yourself?"

I knew she did not want me to leave, and i did not really want to leave her by herself as i sensed she might be embarrassed if i got up an left, so i stayed. It was not really a huge sacrifice and i did not have anything else interesting to do so i stayed.

At one point the woman sitting next to us jumped up at yelled out "NOW", quite out of context to what the speaker had just said. I kind of chuckled to myself, hoping that my daughter would notice this.

(At her "graduations" from the Forum and the Advanced Course the Leaders had littered their presentations with questions like: "And when do we want to do ______[insert action]", and the graduates would chorus: "NOW!" Then a few minutes later he would "invite" the guests to register for The Forum, or the Advanced Course, he would look around the room to see if anyone was getting ready to stand up, and if there was movement he would stop speaking and point to the back of the room where "volunteers" were waiting to sign up new participants).

Towards the end of the evening, (the session was scheduled to run from 7:00 pm. to 10:00 pm), after it became evident that no one was ready to sign up, the speaker asked for testimonials from the "graduates". They were eloquent and somewhat inspiring, and i felt happy that Landmark had made such an apparent difference in their lives.

Then it was time for us to "share" a "possibility" (just for the sake of exercise) with the person we came with. This is when the "bait" is presented, and more often or not when one might take the hook. My daughter shared some vague thing that i can't even remember, and then it was my turn. I think i shocked her when i told her that i felt that my mom's death is imminent and i started to tear up. She asked me some questions and i blabbered some non-sence about feeling that i would die when she died (i don't know if i really believe this, but of course on some level i will die, in spirit maybe, as we are connected genetically, so part of me WILL die with her - just came to this as i type this). But i really did not want to consider that room full of strangers as "family", and i was really uncomfortable being in this vulneral space, and i struggled to pull myself together, all the while thinking: "i am not going to enroll, i am not going to get sucked in, i do not want to take the Landmark Forum"...

The funny thing is though, as i told her later, if last night's speaker had been the first speaker i had heard at Landmark i might have given serious consideration to joining, but the first two "educators" had been so aggressive and presented such a hard sell that my suspicious were aroused, and my resistance so strong that i am not sure anything will break it down.

At 9:30 it became evident that no one was going to jump up from their seats and sign up, so the speaker called the meeting to an end, and we left, without saying goodbye to anyone. As we walked back to the skytrain I sensed a real air of dejection around her but when i said: "You appear dispondent", she asked, "How do you come to that conclusion?". I replied: "Your body language", so then she went into a dissitation about body-language and how it can mean different things, and she quoted something from the Forum about men in the army who stand at attention with their arms folded because it is comfortable to stand that way. (I did not point out to her that it seemed incongruent that the army would support anything that would bring comfort when soldiers are "at attention" because i realized this was a pre-programmed defence she had been "taught" by this highly monetarily successful Incorporated Company that provides "education".)

We walked on in silence for a little while. She said she was hungry so i suggested that we walk up to Robson Street and see what we could find to eat. The streets were littered with all sorts of interesting people, and the glum mood lifted somewhat as we discussed where we should get a coffee.

On the ride home she assured me that she was very comfortable with her decision not to sign up for the July course (she has something else planned), or the August course (again, she has reservations for something else then and she is not going to cancel) and that there is no date for a November course so she has not put any money down. (so far she has spent $750.00 Cdn., her dad paid the $500.00 for the first course, and loaned her $250 for the Advanced course), and i felt relieved that she had not "invested" any more money until she has had time to absorb what she has learned up to now.

As we got closer to her place i said that i had made a list of things for myself to accomplish today, and perhaps she could phone me and check up to see if i had done them. She agreed and said she liked the idea of us being accountable to each other, and that it would help us get things accomplished.

When i dropped her off she was subdued, and i asked her if she was disappointed that i had not signed up. She said "not really, i know you don't have the money", but i felt very sad, as though i had let her down. I could not sleep so i stayed up until four this morning watching a movie. ("Strangers in Good Company" - it was quite good).

At 11:00 a.m. this morning i tried to phone her but she did not answer, so she is either asleep, in the shower, out, or not answering. I AM concerned that the "high" that she was on after her Advanced Course will not last (i am already seeing signs of this), and that she is in danger of "crashing"...but...i guess i have to just trust the process...whatever that is...trust that what will be will be, and get on with my own stuff. I do need to look after myself, get healthy, and start to enjoy my life again.

did however agree to be accountable to each other, as

[this is just, in a nutshell, what transpired last night - there is more, but i am tired now and i have only had one cup of coffee and half a papya to eat, and i am getting hungry]...then i have to get to my little list of things to do, so that when my daughter phones i can say that i have honoured my committment to myself.]
*big sigh*

{{nameste all}}

p.s. note to self: "get a grip, pj!!"

Comments below photo of "ted"

And now for something completely different: Remember to drop by my crafty blog and leave your suggestion in the "name the teddy" contest
click here

27 comments:

Carole Burant said...

Hi pj:-) I'm glad you posted, was wondering if everything was ok with you!! After reading your post, I'm glad you didn't sign up for that course...I never trust places like that, they're only out for one thing. I swear they brainwash people!! Call me paranoid but I've heard and seen too many horror stories about such "corporations"!! Hope it doesn't put a damper on your relationship with your daughter! xox

dragonflyfilly said...

hi pea, yep, i hope my daughter is going to be ok, which reminds me, i should phone her. Just got back from my friend's house. My downstairs neighbour transported me there to pick up my spare keys as i locked myself out of my apartment when i went to check my mail!!!!

My daughter has my other set of spares, but she is at belly-dancing lessons tonight.

Well, the Landmark Education Corporation uses neurolinguistic programming techniques, but they claim not to be a pyramid sales scam, but they really are. I told my daughter that i do not understand whey she would want to volunteer to be a trainer for them, as they make tons of money, they should be paying people to work for them.

i was exhausted for most of the day today - i did not even want to go to other Blogs to read and post -- i just started to perk up about an hour ago, went to get my mail and locked myself out, silly girl!

oh well, now i have to phone my daughter and leave a message to let her know that i'm in.

thanks for stopping by,
cheers,
pj

dragonflyfilly said...

p.s. last night they had pitchers of water and paper cups, i cracked a joke to my daughter saying, "well, i'll start to really worry when they have pitchers of Kool-Aid"...she was not amused!

alan said...

I hadn't heard of this program before, so without doing some reading I won't condemn them, but I always trust my instinct when I encounter anything like this. Sometimes it lets me down and I still end up in something I shouldn't have, but it's saved me more times than not!

I'm sure you did exactly what you should have whether you disappointed her or not!

(Last time I locked myself out I was lucky and had my Swiss Army knife in my pocket...)

Thinking of you!

alan

dragonflyfilly said...

hi *alan*

Landmark Education bought the "technology" from EST, founded by one Werner Erhard, formerly Jack Rosenberg. The people "at the helm" are his brother and sister. What i object to is the high price for the courses, combined with the high pressure sales techniques.

For example, before the speaker dismissed us he said: "well, the person who brough you tonight would not want you to do something that would hurt you, and you trust that person, don't you?" -- the full implication of that statement being that if you don't sign up for their "life altering" forums then you must not trust the person sitting next to you (i.e. your friend, son/daughter, mother etc.)...

i just hope i do not have to explain to my daughter that while i trust her overall, in this instance i do not trust her judgement that this couse will change my life.

Jean-Luc Picard said...

An excellent post; I always think that if one has any reservations about signing up for something, then they shouldn't do so.

dragonflyfilly said...

hey there mon kapitano thanks for stopping by!

yep.
the problem is that while cognitive behaviour therapy combined with neurolinguistic programing (which i think the "technology" of Landmark utilizes) does have merit, and can be used for good, in this instance it has a bad reputation (from the EST debachale) -- it costs a huge amount of money, and i think the effects are short term, and on top of that, there is a very real danger that some people, who may be suffering with undiagnosed depression, CAN be tipped over the edge.

My daughter has low blood pressure and has to keep up her fluids and salt intake. She also has a sensitive digestive system and should eat frequent small meals. And she also suffers with SAD and should not be deprived of proper rest.

When she attends the 14 hour sessions she does not eat properly, and her brain is bombarded with the Landmark jargon. Then we have to factor in the 3 hour travel time there and back, so that makes it a 17 hour day for three days in a row... a potential recipe for disaster...and that is why i wanted to be available to pick her up at the skytrain, because i would just lie in bed awake worrying about whether or not she got home safely!

But i am not going to do it anymore. I have told her how i feel about it, and i have to look after myself. If she gets stuck at the skytrain when the busses stop running she will either have to take a taxi or phone her dad to give her a ride. Enuf already!

But so far so good. She is off to Van Dusen Gardens for the Harry Potter festivities (instead of the July Landmark Forum Special Training), so i'm hoping that the "brainwashing" will have worn off by November and she may not continue. In the meantime i have a book on order from the Library that has instructions on how to deprogram people...so maybe that will help.

If nothing else it will give me something to keep my mind occupied and i may be able to stop myself from worrying.

Then there is the Argentinians vs. the Chex, which is by no means a "done deal" because of suspensions and injuries...but i am keeping my fingers crossed for my favourite team to win. I think it is going to be an interesting game with the fancy footwork of the S.American team, against the large and burly Europeans!

heartinsanfrancisco said...

I've never heard of this course, but it reminds me of The Forum, which my older daughter took. Very expensive and supposedly life-changing.

I don't take well to any kind of attempt to brainwash me, especially when they use guilt as a lever.

Mother-daughter relationships are so very delicate.

I hope your mother's health is better than you think.

mckait said...

Well.. it is good that you and your daughter are so close.. this way you can watch out for her in case she made a wrong decision for herself...

glad to see you posting gain!

dragonflyfilly said...

hi Heartsinsanfransisco,

All the leaders from from somewhere in the US. it seems. The ones i met were from Seattle. The Landmark Forum is the very first course my daughter took, then the Advanced Course, now they want her to sign up for SELF (?)or something like that., which i think is a course that trains you to be a volunteer!!! - what a scam - you have to pay THEM so that you can work for them for FREE!

While Landmark says that if you are not successful it is because of something that you are doing wrong, but if you are successful they take the credit.

I think it is the same course you daughter took, and if you use the same formula that Landmark uses your daughter might have, in time, transformed her life without Landmark! who knows?

But my daughter and i do have a solid relationship; we have been really close for the past 24 years, inspite of her Dad's attempts to undermind me...so we shall see.

i'm feeling better today - yesterday i was very sick in the morning but felt better late afternoon.
and
suddenly something "clicked", and i seem to be able to "let go", and just sort of accept, "what will be will be", stressing does not help anyone!

thanks for coming by!

Hi Kath,

yep! - i have just decided that i will be totally blunt with her. i will tell her how i see it, try not to argue, try to listen to her take on it, although i know it is not her thinking but just the formula they have drummed into her. last night she went to the big Harry Potter party at Van Dusen Gardens, all dressed up as a female wizard, she looked great. So she is still in touch with her fun stuff and she has good friends who i hope will support her through this.

glad to see you at my Blog...i'll pop over to yours to leave a comment now.

cheers for now,
pj

heiresschild said...

hi pj, i enjoyed this post. sometimes it's good to write about one's feelings, isn't it? just let it all out. *lol* it's always best to do what you feel, so it's good you didn't sign up since you weren't feeling it.

heiresschild said...

hi pj, in answer to your question, yes, you post your award and award it to 5 people of your choice. enjoy!

dragonflyfilly said...

ok, so i am thinking about the 5 people i want to pass the award on to, then i also have to figure out how to link them to my Post!

cheers for now, and thanks again for the award!
pj

Smalltown RN said...

Like most who commented here...I have never heard of this Forum and I too would be a little hesitant to join...I am curious as to what "life altering experience" your daughter got out of this course? What is the couses "objective" Is it to gain insight...I didn't get a feel from what you said what it is all about, just that you were not comfortable with it and it wasn't for you....personally, if I am looking for insight or personal development I like to read run and meditate and yoga is always good and a lot cheaper.

Oh by the way...thanks for the honour...I'm at work the next few days so won't be posting much...but I will get to it when I can....cheers!

Ian Lidster said...

First off, my friend, I do definitely think you should create your own award, and I want to get one, OK?
Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure what Landmark Education is, but as you described it, I would be extremely wary, as were you. I don't like. And then, when I saw the name of that old scammer Werner Erhardt (as in EST) connected with it, I know I would run 100 miles in any direction to avoid it. Werner is excellent in separating people from their money, fucking up their minds, and offering nothing else in return.
Sorry for the biased response, my dear, but I think you were so wise in your approach to the matter.
Cheers,
Ian

dragonflyfilly said...

hi smalltown RN
thanks for stopping by, and i just have to reiterate that i really enjoy your blog, as i am sure other will.

i have decided to do a brief Post on Landmark (in spite of the fact that i read somewhere on the internet that one person who said bad things about it got a rock thrown through her windscreen - let's hope she is just paranoid and that the two incidents were merely co-incidental)

hi ian
righty ho! -- i will have to give this award some thought tho' as i want it to be "original", if possible.

no no no, thank you for being blunt, it is as you say! smalltown RN asked what is it that they do, and in reality that is all they do: separate people from their money! - it really pisses me off!

cheers for now, and thanks for dropping by!
pj

dragonflyfilly said...

post script and darn it all anyway! - it's given me another reason to stay MAD at my stupid ex- as it was he who introduced her to Landmark Education! *chuckle* - just when i thought i had worked through all my "issues"! - sheeesh!

heiresschild said...

hi pj, i like the criteria you based the people you selected for the "schmoozing award" on. i did my own criteria for the ones i selected too; that's why even though there were some i wanted to pick, they didn't quite meet that particular criteria.

i thought about creating an original blogger award also. i mean, the others had to start from somewhere. *lol

i think i have one in mind while i'm typing; now i just have to figure out how to create it.

dragonflyfilly said...

sounds like fun, Sylvia, can't wait to see what it all about...i have a couple of ideas for mine...but i might cheat and design one that will custom fit ian, (nudge nudge wink wink) - is that very bad of me?

heiresschild said...

nah, it's actually very noble 'cause i was thinking the same thing. i just don't think the awards i've seen so far on the blogs have suited him. he's definitely not a "rockin' girl." lol

Meow (aka Connie) said...

Congratulations on the award ... it is always fun to be acknowledge by fellow bloggers, don't you think.
Hope you are having a great week.
Take care, Meow

dragonflyfilly said...

thanks, Meow!

They call him James Ure said...

Thank-you for the award. You are very kind. ;)

dragonflyfilly said...

not at all james, you deserve it!

dragonflyfilly said...

well, *lesley* declined the award, so that is ok, since i was supposed to only select 5 and i selected 6...

GuruTruth said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
dragonflyfilly said...

thanks, gurutruth, for all the info. i now know what i have to do....

cheers for now,
pj