Monday, July 23, 2007

what IS a mother to do?


Further to my little rant about Landmark Corporation i decided to publish my opinions about it. I am sure i will be criticized by people who may have just completed the Advanced Course in July (if they happen to read this Blog), because they will still be on the "high" that this group process creates.

I am hoping that by Posting this information someone out there in the Blogosphere will be inspired to do an investigative piece on "the corporation", because i am not skilled enough to do this myself, and i think there are some people out there who need to be protected from these very aggressive, unethical "salesmen". (because while they claim to be "Educators", i really believe that their main interest is in making lots of money. The fact that some people might get something from this education is incidental).

Some Landmark "curriculum" claims:

$$ The Landmark Forum is the world's most widely acclaimed personal development programme.

$$ Recently, Landmark's work was the subject of two case studies by leading graduate business schools at two prestigious American universities. The first case study focused on Landmark's work with individuals, while the second case study centered around Landmark's work with organizations.

$$ The Landmark method is more like coaching than teaching, more like dialogue than lecture, more like a university case-method of study than learning theories, more like acquiring skills than learning tips, rules and information.

$$ Each year over 160,000 people participate in Landmark's programmes. [hmmmm...multiply 160 thousand by approximately ($500 + $1,000 + ? = plus/minus $1,500) ?$2,4000000? My little hand calculator can't even handle this sum. Boy, i think i want to buy shares in this company!]

$$ Nearly one million people on five continents have participate in Landmark's programmes.


further, "Each day begins at 9:00 a.m. and typically ends at approximately 10:00 p.m.*
the * sent me to the very small print at the bottom of the page which reads: "In locations where The Landmark Forum is being simultaneously translated, the coure will end between 10:00 P.M. and midnight" - The Forum Is Being Simultaneously Translated? - what the ffftt does THAT mean?

Actually, my daughter started at 10:00 a.m. and finished at 12:30 after midnight! - then she still had to travel an hour and a half to get home!
The back of this glossy 7-page (8 1/2 by 11) brochure lists their corporate headquarters as San Francisco with offices in Melbourne, Perth, Sydney, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, Frankfurt, Bangalore Bombay, New Delhi, Tel Aviv, Nagoya, Osake, Tokyo, Mexico City, Nairobi, Amsterdam, Auckland, Wellington, Cape Town, Bucarest Singapore, Bangkok, London Arizona, California (Los Angeles and Newport Beach) Sacramento San Deigo, San Jose Denver, Ft. Lauderdale, Atlanta, Chicago, Kansas City, Boston, Detroit, Minnesota, St. louis, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Cleveland, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Dallas, Houston, Utah, Virginia, and Seattle.

After my daughter's participation in "The Forum", i was somewhat concerned, but when she told me that she did not really want to attend the Advanced Course (in July) i decided that i did not have anything to worry about. But she said, "oh well, as i have already paid for it i guess i should go [she had put down $750, and her dad had loaned her the rest" - $250]- By Sunday she was "hooked" again and behaving in a really hyper, slightly manic, totally weird way, and talking gibberish.
I went into panic mode and phoned my sister, several friends, and my neice. My friend said i have to let her learn her lessons the "hard way", my sister said there really was not much i could do, after all, she is 24 and supposedely an adult, one friend said she totally understood that i want to protect her, and my neice told me she had a couple of friends who have become "Landmark Junkies" (my term) and when they phone her at 3:00 in the morning to "be complete" with her she just laughs at them.

These "Landmark Junkies", are tolerated but disliked by people who have not done the Landmark Education courses, and are really annoying because people cannot understand what they are talking about, and they are always trying to "enroll" their friends and relatives.

I was really concerned because i did not want my daughter to alienate her boyfriend, friends and relatives, and i felt very strongly that the Landmark Corporation is mis-using neurolinguistic programming techniques.


So i went to the Internet and found a mass of literature about Landmark, some in support of Landmark, others not.

Here are some sites you can visit if you are interested, and i highly recommend that you do, just in case someone you know is thinking about spending money on these courses.


>>The Process and Ecology of The Forum
http://perso.orange.fr/eldon.braun/awareness/f-process3.html

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8080/forum1.htm

http://skepdic.com/est.html

Quoting from Charles Denison: The Process and Ecology of the Forum: "If you play according to the rules, you can expect big results from The Forum. If you don't. '...you may still get the result, but you forfeit your right to expect it.' In other words, cooperative participants can expect to bear the fruit of "The Promise of The Forum." Unfortunately, the promise is not readily identified, and none of the subjects seemed able to quote it. There are a number of handouts which document the promise, albeit none of them represent the definitive statement on the subject. The ones the researcher has on file include:
* The promise of The Forum is to empower you in the face of the risk that life is
* A breakthrough in relationship to yourself and the world around you
* A breakthrough in personal efectiveness
* A breakthrough in the practice of excellence
* A breakthrough in the art and science of achievement

Perhaps the most comprehensive statement of "the promise" is the one written on the board during the training:

THE PROMISE OF THE FORUM IS THAT YOU CAN GET ANYTHING OUT OF THE FORUM THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO STAND FOR HAVING GOTTEN" [pj - "huh?"]

further; "...In the informed consent packet (which arrives in the mail) registrants have been notified of the required promises and the recommended promises they will be asked to make. 'We are asking you go give your work and to keep your word, specifically to make certain promises and to keep those promises you made, during the entire presentation of The Forum..."

Required promises (paraphrased):
> When you wish to speak in The Forum, you must raise your hand and be called on by the leader. Then you must take a microphone and speak into it. You also promise not to talk to others during the sessions.

> Always wear your name tag "in a visible place." [i recall now that when i attended the last presentation a "volunteer" at the door stopped my daughter because she could not see her name tag]

>Do not bring tape recorders, cameras, reading materials, busy work, or food to your chair. Also, you need to promise not to take any notes.

> Practice confidentiality, knowing that absolute confidentiality can never be assured. (In other words, you must agree not to identify other trainees and their issues outside The Forum, but you must also realize that no one at Landmark can guarantee that your identity will be kept confidential.)

> Read and sign a legally binding statement of copyright and no resale, a document which declares that every concept and activity taught at The Forum is the property of Landmark Education, and that you will not repackage and sell it for financial profit. (One may not go out and produce thier own Forum training) [my comment: well, that is pretty standard]

> Read and sign an informed consent (document) in which you confirm that you are healthy and that you understand the The Forum is not any kind of psychotherapeutic treatment program. This document included question about your history of psychiatric hospitalization, current psychotherapy, and your use of psychotropic medications.

Then there are the recommended promises:

> That you not take any drugs or medications, including aspirin and alcohol, except those which are prescribed by your health practitioner. Caffeine and nicotine are allowed.

> That you stay awake and alert during the sessions.

> That you be present in The Forum during all the sessions. You are allowed to go to the bathroom anytime: if you do so, however, 'you forfeit the right to expect any result from your participation' ("I was reminded of this by the doorkeeper who greeted me on the way to my first bathroom break" - Charles Denison)

We all knew all this before we entered The Forum room, since we had all been mailed packets which informed us of these promises. No big surprises. But getting throught he discussion of, and agreement to, the promises took well over an hour....It is somehow obvious (to me, at least) that the leader has heard every complaint many times before.

"What if somebody has hypoglycemia and needs to have a little food at their seat?"
>"oh. do you have hypoglycemia?"
"Well, no."
>"Next question, please."

Some of the discussion comes in the form of a challeng:

"All this seems like mind control or something, like you're just trying to control us. Like we're being deprived of food and sleep. Like we can't even go pee if we need to: can't talk to anybody."
>"Do you have a question about the promises?"
"It just seems ridiculous, weird."
>"I got that. Do you have a question about the promises?"
"No. You know, that's just how I feel about it."
>"Are you agreeing to make these promises?"
"Uh, yeah, I guess so."
>"Yes or no?"
"Yeah...Yes."
>"I got it. Anything else?"

Conditions Created by the Promises

The researcher and several interviewees recognized a great deal of resistance to the Promises as they were being presented during The Forum. After The Forum, there was a shift in attitude among some participants about that process - that it was actually "the work" of the Forum, as opposed to an inappropriate delay in getting The Forum started.

The promises are an integral part of the structure of The Forum, and they are a means by which this unique experience is facilitated."

The foregoing is just a brief summary of the document entitled "The Awareness Archives which is headed up by this disclaimer: {"This copyrighted article is provided under U.S. COPYRIGHT ACT 108.Limitations on exclusive rights: Reproduction by libaries and archives. The archives are provided for your private study, scholarship, or research; and any use you make of the materials must fall under the Fair use exception of the U.S. Copyright Act." - I went to both the copyright links but could not get connected to read, so i'm hoping that quoting some of the document and giving credit to the author is ok for me to do.

I ignored my friend's advice who said i have to let my daughter "learn the hard way". My reasoning being is, i'm still her mom, and it is still my job to do what i can to protect her. Why should i let her give her hard-earned money to a bunch of slick salesmen? I know that i have no control over whether or not she does give them her money to take the courses, but at least i have some responsibility in letting her know what i myself have learned about "the corporation".

But having said that, any feedback would be welcome.

19 comments:

dragonflyfilly said...

pardon my typos, but i have been at this for a while and i need to go get some lunch!

cheers for now,
pj

Dr. Deb said...

I am a skeptic always. Anything that claims to be THE BEST usually is far from it, imo.

Carole Burant said...

Sounds like all the other cults out there...anything to make money and have power over people. If it was one of my boys joining that group, I would be fighting to get them out of there...I can smell a scam a hundred miles away and this one don't smell too good!! lol xoxo

heiresschild said...

hi pj, wow, sounds like a jim jones cult, and you're right to be concerned about your daughter. after all, she is your daughter. hopefully, she'll see the light real soon.

dragonflyfilly said...

~dr.deb~ yep, so true...and as usual it's "Buyer Beware" eh? thanks for stopping by!

~pea~ my daughter was NOT amused when i quipped, when she pointed to the water jugs and paper cups at the back of the room: "Well, i'll start to worry when they serve us purple Kool-Aid!" I don't think Landmark is quite a cult, but they come pretty close!

~sylvia~ see above - i'm not sure that my daughter got my reference to the jim jones cult, but maybe she did and chose to ignore it!

but thank you all for validating my feelings...

cheers for now, and please refer people to this Post, i think people need to be aware of the dangers.

jumpinginpuddles said...

landmark here have made their mark but not in a positive way and thats in australia, and that many hours isnt healthy for families and home life

Jean-Luc Picard said...

This sounds very disturbing; if they alienate families, they are bad news. Your daughter may disagree, but these people are a tough group and not easy to prise her from.

dragonflyfilly said...

hi JIP, thanks for the validation.

Hi mon kapitano yep...and while they SAY that they don't alienate families, the reality is that on a subliminal level they do. When i told my daughter that i was afraid that we would be alienated she said: "oh quite the contary, because they tell us to phone family members on the breaks and they WANT family to be involved"

Involved yes, but only involved in the Landmark process. Families are just another souce of thier income, as they do not spend ANY money on any kind of advertising (very clever), all their new recruits come from the "graduates" who are told over and over and over to "invite" their friends, family members, co-workers, etc. to sign up for this "life altering" experience. The alienation comes when one tries to break through all the jargon, as when i tried to convince my daughter that she was being manipulated.

It is really insidious!

Belizegial said...

A mother's instinct is always on target PJ. I am hopeful that your daughter will see the light on this one.

Enid

Unknown said...

Run from The Forum as fast as you can! My boss took to The Forum {as it was called in San Francisco at the time) and I was virtually held prisoner there for the evening. It is an offspring of "est" which famously did not allow people to go to the bathroom. It is pure mind control. I talk a little about it in a post in my blog about a year ago.

dragonflyfilly said...

thanks enid, yep, initially i did not listen to my instinct because her dad paid for the first course, and he is usually quite level headed about this. ...BUT...given that it was his new wife (a woman he had only known for a couple of months before they got married) who told him about it,i guess i should have been more vigilant...she had done all the courses and is thinking about taking a refresher course!!! maybe that is why he was so quick to marry her (power of persuasion eh?)

hi tom thanks for stopping by and commenting. yes, i had heard that a very prominent business here in Vancouver has made all its employees take the course, and a lot are not at all happy about it! Trouble is my daughter has taken The Forum AND The Advanced Course, and is seriously thinking about taking the enchanced course in November, so they already have their hooks into her.

I'm not sure if i will be able to disentangle her, but i'm hoping that the time away will help her see "the light"...trouble is she is VERY headstrong, and now it might be a case of her loosing face, so i think i have to back off for awhile. (????- i just don't know???)

thanks for the link, i will go there and have a look.

cheers for now,
pj

Ian Lidster said...

Tom raises some excellent points about alienation of families, especially spouses. Est was notorious for breaking up marriages and relationships. He was also right about the bathroom thing. They wouldn't let people leave sessions to go an pee, and consequently people would end up publicly wetting themselves, and then others were encouraged to deride them for their lack of discipline. It's a sinsiter, money-grabbing bit of mind-control, my friend.
Ian

dragonflyfilly said...

Hi ian, i know, you are right, it IS sinister. I finally got hold of my daughter a few minutes ago, she had not been answering my calls or e-mail. and
f***, she has been going to weekly "seminars", and she has advised me that family and friends are "invited" to one of her seminars (so, the pressure is still on!) -- the other thing i am disturbed about is she told me she had a big fight with her boyfriend last night ("but it's ok" - she says). I personally do not believe that one resolves problems by shouting and while she may feel ok, i'm not that sure that her boyfriend does. .... so...now i have been "invited" to actually attend one of her seminars...and you can bet the big guns will be out to get me! - i am not sure whether or not i will go, but may, if i can try to take some notes...

it is next Monday, July 30th at 7:00 p.m. at their offices downtown Vancouver, Suite 120, 1155 W.Pender Street, if you want to attend. Maybe you could do an article on it?

*sigh* i do know it is mind-control, and i'm afraid my daughter is showing no signs of figuring it out!

alan said...

Sorry I missed your update...

My employer has sent us to various "classes" through my 29 years there. Some were one day things held in the building; 25 years ago it was a weeklong off site shindig.

Each time they purported to give us the skills and tools we needed to compete in "the world market". Each time we would return to work full of hope, knowing that things would be better after this.

Each time we returned to the shop floor and it was management that was unchanged, therefore the skills and tools were worthless!

Not that things haven't gotten better, as the "old school" retired and also there were less of them overall.

Beyond all of that; my sons are 29 and 28 and I worry about them every day, along with their spouses. I see mistakes that I made being repeated despite my admonitions; in fact at times my admonitions seem to hasten them.

By and large though, they seem to avoid the major ones I've made, so they're still ahead at this point. Neither of them is abusing their bodies to make a living, except perhaps the hazard of carpal tunnel syndrome. Neither of them has more on "plastic" than they can pay off any given month (my biggest mistake ever). In the end, I guess that's all we can hope for!

Once again, sorry I missed your update. Monday night they hit us with 9.8 hours; it was only supposed to be 8.7, and we haven't worked less than 9.2 since. I get home, try to bloghop a bit, shower and go to sleep and get up to try to put my garage back together before the next rainstorm hits.

i'd still be sleeping right now, but someone turned on the lights in my darkened bedroom at 12:30. Panicked, as I'm supposed to be the only one in the house, I rolled over enough to find Frankie on Dottie's side of the bed pulling the curtain open so he could look outside. That had my heart racing enough that, knowing the clock was set for one I got up for the day...

Now to finish my "cappucino" and wander out into 90 with 70% humidity...

Thinking of you!

alan

dragonflyfilly said...

i just talked to my mom, she is having trouble with her eyes, but i feel better, i got my fighting genes from her, (the KirkPatrick blood is boiling and i ready for a fight - these shusters are NOT going to get my daughter, and they do not know who they are dealing with)

i know they have a ton of money behind them, but i have faced much scarier foes than them. I have a strategy, but i just have to tread carefully.

I talked to my daughter this morning; we are ok, just ok, but i know what i have to do to make sure i keep the lines of communication open. I told her in no uncertain terms that if i don't hear from her within a reasonably amount of time, if she does not answer my e-mails, or phone calls, i WILL take action. If, in my opinion, i think her mental health or physical wellbeing is at risk, i will mobilize all the forces i have behind me against Landmark, no ifs or buts about it.


No worries about missing my update, i was just worried that something was wrong with my computer again....you are a busy busy man with lots of responsibilities, and i really do appreciate the time you take out to communicate with me.

It is a hot sunny day here, and i have to meet someone at 2:00 so i had better dash, well, as much as i can in this hot weather.

I could not sleep, so i was up and working at 6:30 this morning, then i picked up some brekkie for my daughter and went to her apartment and rang her buzzer (that was at about 10:15); i had to make sure she was ok.

i forgot, who is Frankie? -- i will have to visit your archives to update myself!

Well, i guess i had better stop doing my raindancing, eh? *chuckle*

Love and Light,
pj

alan said...

Frankie is the black cat my daughter-in-law tamed and adopted and then couldn't keep because he tested leukemia positive when she took him to the vet as a kitten and she had two cats that weren't. The 2nd round was negative, but he's a part of the family now and the dog would miss him terribly if anything happened to him.

He has two other windows he can go look out, he was just being a brat, lol!

alan

word verification: connhs

dragonflyfilly said...

connhs, INDEED, ...i'm afraid for the time being i've lost her, she will be attending "siminars" every Monday until September, then the SEFP, (OR whatever) starts in October, so it takes that i might as well give up....the more i try to talk sense into her the more resistant she becomes, it is the way the programming works...i guess i just have to take a wait and see attitude for now. My hands are tied because she is an adult and she signed a waiver....

Frankie sounds adorable...i love black cats, and it is funny how the expression goes: "fight like cats and dogs" but in fact a lot get along quite well, eh?

it is 4:04 a.m. and i have a wretched migraine

*sigh" oh well, whatcha gonna do?

later,
pj

word verification: bagucx (huh?)

dragonflyfilly said...

my heart is heavy, but it is time to move on...i have to trust that i have instilled my daughter with some sound values, and that sanity will prevail, there is nothing more i can do but just wait it out and see what happens.

So, i need to try to concentrate on other things....

antiLE said...

Landmark is a very controversial group that has nothing to do really with education or business
See this link before you let them mess with your mind or your business.
http://www.rickross.com/groups/landmark.html
I too lost a loved one to them,most do not understand it only takes the weekend.
at the bottom of the page linked is a fourm ,maybe you will find some help there
good luck